This is Making Better Decisions. I’m your host, Ryan Sullivan. Decisions are where rubber meets the road for organizations. Each week, we’ll be learning from people who are on the front lines of turning raw data into better outcomes for their organizations. This show is sponsored by Canopy Analytic, helping companies make better decisions using data.
Ryan: Hey everybody. And welcome to another episode of the making better decisions podcast. Today’s guest is a MarTech and sales tech revolutionary with a knack for generating demand and creating sales and marketing infrastructure. He advises financial institutions and banks on sales and marketing trends across over 60 technologies.
He is also a business strategist who has helped transform the sales and marketing strategies of over 200 small and large businesses. Please welcome founder and CEO of Measured Results Marketing, Christopher [00:01:00] Antonopoulos. Hey, Christopher.
Christopher: Hey, Brian. Thanks for having me on today. I’m quite excited about the opportunity to chat about data and decisions.
Ryan: Yeah. Yeah, I am as well. Plus I love any excuse to get to check out all your Yetis. I love it. So one of the first things that I want to do is give you the same question that we ask everybody. I know that there’s a lot of kind of directions to take this in. Um, but I’m excited to hear what you think about it.
So what is the one thing you wish more people knew about using data to make better decisions?
Christopher: Um, I wish they knew that you didn’t have to keep all of the data that you collect, um, over time and that they understood where it actually came from. I think, um, you know, data is something that people hold on to, like things we have in our storage unit that have been there for years that we haven’t used nor ever planned to use, but I think it’s.
You know, only keeping the things [00:02:00] that are gonna allow you to make decisions and not feeling like you have to keep everything and then making sure you understand where it came from in the first place. Who entered it? Was it uploaded through a list? There, is it, is it accurate or not? Or I would say those are probably the You asked for one thing, but I think those are the two things that, um, are particularly important.
Ryan: Yeah. you know, as a result of my role, I was kind of a gatekeeper of data. I was one of those people that people would come to me like, Hey, I need this, or I need the answer to a question. One of the things that I had found was, you know, there’s kind of this, I’d like to call it old school, but it’s not old school.
It’s still rides. There’s just like, there’s the business and there’s it, or there’s some sort of like, you know, it’s like this profit kind of cost center mentality. And in order to like handle the volume of requests, there would always be like tickets and prioritizations. And like, I get where that comes from, right?
Like a [00:03:00] lot of times these people only get one bite at the Apple and to get like another data request takes all this time, but you’re absolutely right. Like we would give them these data sets and it would be like, okay, well we need every column you have from all of history. And I’m like, you sure that might like crash your machine, you
Christopher: Yeah. I mean, it’s sort of even Excel has limits on the number of rows that you have or data you can look at. Yeah. It’s, um, it’s really interesting. Cause it’s, it’s sort of that for me, it’s sort of that fallacy is that, you know, if you have all the data, then you can find the answer to that question and the more data you have, the, You know, the better chances you are of answering that really obscure question.
Like, tell me what the change is in annual recurring revenue over the last Five years, you know, were there any changes and trends and what the business was selling, right? That’s a fairly common common [00:04:00] question, at least in our world or you know, what’s the average monthly recurring revenue? and so What what happens is is that?
You then spend all of your time trying to figure out what data is real and what field to look in
Ryan: mm,
Christopher: And you don’t really get to answer the global question, which is You Are we trending to make more money and is there any changes in terms of what people are spending with us To sort of answer that question So, you know, I think that with data believe it or not less usually is more But it’s trying to understand the business What the company is trying to figure out or solve for rather than the question they’re asking you, mm, right? So that’s the other piece. So if If it’s great, you’re trying to do analysis and you’re looking at, there are 500 different fields. Um, one of our clients has [00:05:00] 19 different databases that
collect different information. What field do you use from what database? And then, what are duplicated? And then, you know, what fields?
Is there only a 1 percent chance that you would actually need that data? Is the thing to figure out.
Ryan: Yeah. I think particularly, you know, I’m I’m an unapologetic nerd and a data nerd and, you know, tech and computer science and all that stuff. I just, you know, I think it’s, it’s awesome. You know, I love it. And I think for people like me, there’s, you know, like I hear the problem that you described there and I’m like, Oh, we just have to build like the data warehouse for the next gen, you know, like amazing.
Right. And it’s like, okay, well you kind of touched on it. Like, is the juice worth the squeeze? Like, in my experience, as sad as this is to say, the majority of these [00:06:00] like integration warehousing, like we’re going to make all the data super easy and manageable initiatives, they die. And before they die, they cost a lot of money.
Christopher: Yeah, absolutely.
Ryan: And so. I have always tried to preach something which is very similar to what you talk about, which is kind of like, you know, what’s the 20 percent of information that’s going to get you 80 percent of the answers. And what is the easiest step to get you towards that and take that, right? And if you get results from that and it’s positive and you want to invest a little bit more than invest a little bit more, like maybe eventually, right?
If you have enough money and success and all these things, like maybe you get to a place where you have a good data warehouse. I’ve seen some of them. But like the idea that we’re just going to like have all this discombobulated stuff all over, and we’re going to have one initiative and then it’s going to be, you know, utopia on the far end.
Like it’s, it’s just a pipe dream in my experience.
Christopher: Well, the other part too is sort of what are the things that the business needs for fundamentals to understand? And I think it, [00:07:00] it sort of never starts that way. At least in my experience, it’s been, it’s not the great to run an efficient business, we need to understand the following things, who we sell to, how much we sell to them, you know, is that trending or any changes over time?
Other changes in demographic or firmographic data associated with those people. And so there’s, there’s only like eight or ten things that you really need to know to make sure that things are going in the right direction, or we call them oh crap moments, that you’re identifying something that’s not working the way you’re expecting to quickly and you can solve it.
But, you know, all of those other pieces, I think that, um, as a, as a fellow scientist, I studied physics and quantum mechanics and. You know, you never knew what variable was the one that was going to make a difference and so you wanted to keep all of it. But, [00:08:00] do you really need to store every click, every visit to the website, every email open, every click for the last X number of years?
Ryan: Hmm.
Christopher: And I think it’s sort of a, I don’t know, there’s, I guess there’s some comfort in keeping that
Ryan: Yeah.
Christopher: because you never know, you may have a question, but at the same time, the incremental time, it takes you to get an answer to someone’s question because you’re sorting through that data or even distracted by things that don’t make any, it may not have a logical correlation to something, um, part.
You want to just look at it because you have it.
Ryan: Yeah. Yeah. So one of the things. That this makes me think about is you talked about like, okay, well, when we look at it, like, why are we doing this? And you talked about kind of these fundamental ideas, right? Like, how [00:09:00] do we understand where we’re at as a business and kind of do this model and. I probably just from spending too much time thinking about it and trying to abstract something that’s very simple, but like, I view it as, you know, you have a company or, uh, an NGO or a charity or whatever it is, some organization that’s trying to get someplace, they are trying to do something.
They have goals. And then. In the pursuit of those goals, we have to make decisions around how are we going to attack X, Y, or Z. How are we going to plan for this? Should we stockpile cash? Should we spend? Should we Like, whatever it is, you have this series of decisions that you get to make. And then, based on those decisions, you take some actions and hopefully you achieve the goal that you wanted to.
So, you know, we have goals, decision, action, progress. And, you know, When I think about it, there’s this idea, I think, [00:10:00] that if we just have all of this information all the time, that somehow magically, not only will the right decisions get made, but the actions following those decisions will happen flawlessly.
But it’s like, it’s these like, Really fundamental, like really, really big questions that have a really high cost to changing. These are the ones where it makes sense. Like, Hey, like let’s invest in collecting this data and digging in.
But most of the decisions that I find that I make and that other people make in business are kind of these two way decisions where it’s like, it’s really good to just, like you said, like have a pulse of what’s going on. Can I see that accurately across most of my business and across the recent reasonable amount of time.
And then make a call and focus more on like. We made the, what we think is the right decision. Let’s follow this through with action now.
Christopher: mean, the other, the other piece of this is that, um, you have to look beyond the data and understand, understand what’s going on in the world around you when you talk [00:11:00] about that. So I sometimes find it funny to look at some of the data. And so, If you go back far enough, you know, economic conditions are different in those pieces.
And so, you know, it’s not only the data, but do you really think that what happened in the past or those trends are going to happen in the future based on all of those other components? It could be management team, it could be economy, it could be pre AI and You know, current AI or those bits. And so that’s the other, the thing that I find surprising is that in a lot of this analysis is that people think that what happened in the past is the indicator of what’s going to happen in the future and when they see, some sort of change in that data or some of those key metrics.
It’s sort of like a, okay, we are down 5 percent in this metric, but we’re up [00:12:00] 10 percent in this other one. And so we need to optimize for this one because we’re not going to get back to that condition that produced those results a year ago, two years ago, or three years. So I think the looking back is important for some of the trends or, uh, You know, understanding, but ultimately it’s tied to that goal, right?
So if your goal is X revenue and you’re selling less of one product, and maybe you look at the environment and say, there’s not a market for that anymore. And so we need to sell more of this other thing instead of saying. Oh my gosh, what
is wrong here? We’re down 5%. We need to fix this. And yeah, what happened or what changed?
Let’s spend some more marketing dollars or let’s reduce pricing to try to get more volume and. That’s the fallacy I see with also keeping some of this old data that’s not really an indicator of what’s going to [00:13:00] happen in the future. Because that’s what we’re trying to predict, right? Did we do something wrong?
Did we make a bad decision based on information that we had available to us at the time? Like why, why is our forecast not right? And I’m sure you spend lots of time on that as well. But we forecasted to grow at X percent and based on the data we have available, we thought this was going to happen and ultimately it didn’t.
Why did we miss it? And how can we prevent that from happening again?
Ryan: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, one of the things that this gets me thinking about, you know, so we’re talking about kind of the idea of, well, you know, focus on what’s important. Try to find. You know, the, the signal, um, versus the noise, if I can steal, um, you know, Nate Silver’s book title. But I think that, you know, one of the [00:14:00] things that is particularly common in your space, right?
The sales and marketing tech space is this idea of like, all right, there’s lots of external data. And, you know, for example, like whether people are aware of this or not, like lots of the data that we, we choose are kind of blindly hand out to tech companies, right? It gets aggregated and it gets moved around and packaged and cleaned up and then it can get sold to people.
So people can go out like I could buy a database full of people that I think might be good candidates. To buy my products. And then I load them in and I send them all an email, right. Or maybe I decided to call them all or whatever the case may be. So when we talk about this idea of like figuring out what is the right data, how do you balance and blend that with recommendations for, for using like aggregating third party data, enriching first party data with it?
How do you kind of balance that?
Christopher: mean, I think we look at it from a relationship perspective first. And so I [00:15:00] think from a, from a data perspective, we’re far more interested in cleaning up data we already have for someone who is in the sales process, purchase services, purchase software for us first. I think that’s the, from
a prioritization perspective, because they know you or have some level of connection.
And so reconnecting with them, um, their understanding of those bits is important from a prioritization perspective. You know, then it comes down to sort of groups and communities. So
we’re both, you know, members of lots of groups on LinkedIn and I’ve done, you know, podcasts in different places and that example.
So the next level for us is what is sort of that second level connection or things you have in common with a group that you can then be able to understand the specific challenge that someone has or be able to relate or to be able to help them. [00:16:00] And then the third one is, I think it’s interesting to talk about the aggregated sources. Ironically, if you sort of do some digging, a lot of them aggregate from the same sources. So it’s sort of funny, like you’re buying a list and I’m not, we work with lots of different data vendors and companies that do, do that type of work. And you realize that they use five or six of the same sources and then, you know, They have some special sauce that they have, either human validation or, um, adding information about what technology someone has on top of that list.
But I think beyond that, it’s just your ideal customer profile. And then you have to experiment with lists from those sources to see, is this a net new prospect? I don’t know anything about them, but are they close enough from a industry type of [00:17:00] business? Size are kind of the key criteria that we can help them based on people we’ve serviced or have a track record of helping in the past. So I think it’s, I think it’s those levels, which is we’ve worked with them. We know them. They’re part of a group or a community that we’re part of. Then is this the type of company that we can help and then start experimenting with? You know, the data and some of those companies to see if they really meet that or not.
Ryan: I, I loved where you started there, essentially how it’s mostly about people and about relationships. I think there was, you know, if we think about the, you know, progression of how sales and marketing worked, right? Like I think a lot of kind of like the old school, right?
You know, okay. Briefcase, go to the trade show, hand out [00:18:00] cards, handshake, talk to people, get a phone number, call them, follow them up, you know, kind of do, you know, this, this in person, try to craft relationship type deal. And as you know, technology very rapidly influenced like every part of everything in the
Christopher: Yeah.
Ryan: We’ve seen how, you know, there was this kind of push to just cast this like unbelievably wide net because technology allowed it. And then just like, well, we’re going to, even if we get, excuse me, like a quarter of a percent hit rate, if we just put enough names through it, we can still beat it. You know, how many sales reps we can have out on the road.
So. Obviously I think the pendulum is swinging the other way now. Like every human is tired of the constant like email, text, and call spam. You know, we have like, do not call lists and you know, there’s all sorts of regulations now around, you know, data and the way that you can do things. And one of the [00:19:00] things that I like, uh, you know, that I see you talk about is this idea of, We’re going to focus on the personal relationships with people and we’re going to use technology to empower that process.
But the underlying process is ultimately trying to have a conversation with the human being about something that’s in their best interest and that they can trust you to deliver.
Christopher: mean, you look at all the, I mean, I, there’s a whole bunch of stats around, you know, now a lot of the sales are based on relationship and network and all those, all of those bits for validation. And so you need to make sure you have that available to someone in the sales process or in the evaluation process.
So it is, it is shifting back to that in terms of. I mean, essentially I think the, the way that we’re looking at it now is that, you know, you, I’m sure everyone has read, you know, between 67 and 72 percent of the [00:20:00] buying process happens before they actually call the company or, you know, try to engage, try to engage with you depending on what report you look at or read.
But I think now the shift is, um. You know, companies prepare by, you know, talking to people they know that have a software solution or bought something. I think the shift now is that the company who is selling is responsible for having that same amount of information about that person they’re engaging with. Right. And it’s a huge, it’s a huge shift. So before I get on a call, so I’ve, it’s interesting. I sometimes play the role of sales engineer. I don’t think I will ever get out of that. I love it too much, but it’s interesting the amount of information. and work that’s done on that side prior to the conversation from the company.
And I think that’s [00:21:00] been a huge shift here. So I need to know how the company is doing and who the key players are in the organization. And then the individuals on the phone. What are their role? What are their roles? What
communities are they part of? Have they participated in an event or podcast or, you know, written anything?
And so you have to sort of know that person and know what their interests are in those pieces to give you that chance to build that relationship because that’s sort of that old saying of, you know, you never have a second chance to make a first impression. And so there’s more pressure on that from a human perspective, but also from a data perspective.
I, you know, I’m still getting those awful emails. I see that you went to Boston University. I know someone that went there, right? I didn’t go there myself, but I saw something in your [00:22:00] profile that shows that. Um, and it’s really easy now with tools to discount those type of messages.
Ryan: Yeah.
Christopher: So I think it’s, I think that’s the shift.
We, um, we internally call that digital detective, right? And so that’s what we need to do in order to find out all of this information before that interaction because, you know, people are also very impatient now.
Ryan: Yeah. And I think, I mean, I’ll speak for myself only here, but like kind of tired of spam, you know, it’s, you know, I, I, I own my own business and we do data consulting. That’s why I love talking about this stuff. And, you know, like you, you know, I obviously engage in my own marketing activities, trying to show people, you know, what types of stuff we’re, we’re useful to helping with.
And man, like, it’s like, you know, some of the stuff I’m like, well, what I want, what I want [00:23:00] someone to, To do that to me, like, would I want to get that email? It’s like, nah, then I’m not going to send it. But like what you’re talking about there, like that was, that was kind of like a, a, a mind blow there.
You’re, you’re absolutely right. Like people have investigated you and they have at least a reasonable idea that they could trust you and get what they want from you, otherwise they wouldn’t have initiated a conversation with you, like no one’s going to waste their time on that. So I love. Kind of like flipping that back on yourself and being like, well, if they’ve done the work on you to know you that well, to decide that they want to talk to you, why don’t we do the same?
When I think about that, I think about like, well, Hey, that’s exactly how I want to show up. Like if I showed up to a call trying to buy something and someone
was like, Hey, I saw that you talked about this, this, and this, uh, that plays into, you know, our strengths here, here, and here, like, we think we’re a great match for you.
I gotta be like, Oh my gosh, it’s.
Christopher: we worked with yeah, I worked with Leslie who is, you know, we worked with Leslie in a similar organization. Oh, yeah. I know [00:24:00] Leslie. We talked about XYZ and that and none of that is accidental, right? I mean, I think it’s sort of it.
Ryan: of respect.
Christopher: Yeah, I think that’s, I think that’s the right, um, I think respect, and the other word I would use is sincerity, right?
So when I get a AI generated message that has, you know, attributes from my LinkedIn profile, I’m, um. I’m going to try this. I’m going to make up some fake stuff in profile and like, see if it comes out and like prospecting messages that I get sent,
Ryan: Have a it might be fun to like game that a bit, um, but I think it’s sincerity as well.
Christopher: Like some of these tools pull this information and. Um, it was funny. I recently reconnected with, um, Andre Yee. So I used to, in the early Eloqua days, he sort of ran product over there. And, um, we, I was at a conference and [00:25:00] I was sort of asking questions like, yeah, you know, I, I know that it’s a spam email.
If someone starts by complimenting me on something. You have a great business. I’m really impressed by the results of the organization. So he said, Christopher, so if I ever want to get your intention, I just have to say you suck, right? And I think that is sort of the crux of all of these pieces, which is You know, it’s a sign of respect, but you also have to be sincere in those conversations as well.
And so, you know, if you look at some of that data and we get back to sort of, well, what data do you actually need to keep then, right? So you need to keep information that lets you know what your relationship is with that customer, with that prospect. Did they buy something with you? Did they engage? Do they have a good experience in using your services or product, or do they have a bad [00:26:00] experience? You know, is there a new person in t
een a seat change? Have people moved around? Like what, what’s the status of your relationship with a person? And what’s the status of the relationship with a company,
Ryan: Yeah.
Christopher: right? And then for prospects, You know, what, what progresses that relationship?
I, I need a, I need a better than the dating analogy that’s just used and overused, but it still makes sense, um, which is, like, how do you know you’re making progress and being able to work together in whatever capacity that is? An email open really doesn’t tell you that.
Ryan: Yeah.
Christopher: Right? And so what information tells you that you’re progressing in that relationship?
More people from the company coming? Engaging in a certain type of content? You know, seeing that person live. And so if you think [00:27:00] about it that way, a lot of the data that’s collected doesn’t really show progress in that relationship,
Ryan: Mmm.
Fair. you get to attribution, it’s sort of, that’s what it comes down to.
Christopher: Like what, what thing got someone over the hump to say they want to do business with you? Was it really opening up an email or downloading a white paper or, you know, they talk about there’s, I think the magic number is like 16 or 18 different touches. And I don’t know who figured that out or how. Um, but I think it’s marketing agencies that want to sell more services, honestly.
And so, Tell you what, we’re going to send emails. We’re going to connect to people on social profiles. I, yeah, I’m part joking and I’m part serious. I know lots of people have spent lots of time figuring out what it [00:28:00] takes to engage, but, um, unless you are a Cisco systems or IBM or Microsoft or Amazon, where you have huge business intelligence teams, and you’ve got, Really high volume sort of trying to figure out I’ve, I’ve done 12 touches and I need to get to 16 before we buy as a bit of a.
There’s a bit of a fool’s errand. So why, why keep all of that stuff that’s going to make it harder for you to figure out very simple questions.
Ryan: yeah, I agree. Like, I think most people are going to be better suited just like looking at that list and saying like, how can I personally connect with a human today?
Christopher: Yeah, I, I want a new metric. So, you know, we talk about velocity of pipeline a lot, like, you know, from the time a lead is created to the time it’s sold and, you know, how long does it take to get to a meeting? How long does it take to have a [00:29:00] proposal and negotiate, review, and buy? I want a velocity, I want a velocity of relationship metric. I want a metric to show how do you progress in building a relationship to get to those points.
Ryan: Well, this goes back to the point of what is easiest to measure is what gets managed most, most frequently. And so something as intangible as saying like, Hey, I’m going to go out and try to build relationships with people and be like, okay, well, what, what’s the. What’s the best way to measure that? Oh, well, how many phone calls, right?
Like I got to tell you, right? Like if my buddies called me 10 times a day, they wouldn’t be my buddies very long,
Christopher: No,
Ryan: So like, no, phone calls isn’t exactly the right metric, right? Like that, that’s a hard thing to quantify, isn’t it?
Christopher: it is, but I think you can actually measure the progress toward that, that goal based on engagement or the touch points that you [00:30:00] can measure.
Ryan: Yeah.
Christopher: Right, so you’ve got a random person, and then they subscribe to your newsletter, then they download a piece of content, right? These are very easy metrics that everyone tracks, or they click on an ad, or they visit your website.
So, I think you can look at the velocity and type of activities for engagement. And then see how that changes over time. Like I’m, I’m actually most fascinated about these individuals who we don’t know, who are consistently opening and clicking on content the best we can tell it, it’s not a bot doing it, but sort of, you
know, understanding the behavior and getting to meet those people who are obviously interested in things that we’re saying,
Ryan: Yeah.
Christopher: right?
So I think it’s like consistency. If someone really cares, they’re going to be consistent.
Ryan: Yeah. [00:31:00] Yeah, that’s, that’s interesting. I mean, I think that one of the things that, you know, to bring it a little bit full circle, that you started off by talking about is really this concept of, you know, lineage, right? So like, where do all of these pieces of data come from? And how can you track them through the systems to use them most effectively?
You know, now what we’re kind of getting to at the end is it’s like, there are ways to horrifically misuse these systems and these data. And, you know, just kind of focusing on the wrong things, but like making them very quantified doesn’t really imply that you’re going to be successful. So what I, I think, you know, I’m hearing from you.
If I combine those two ideas is really like, if we focus on the business goals and on crafting real relationships with [00:32:00] people, you know, as we talk about kind of marketing and sales tech, and we find ways to measure. That to report on that, like, how are we making real relationships? How can we show tangibly that people care, that people are like more engaged, improving engagement with the things that actually matter, right?
Like the relationship that they have with the brand or with, you know, the person that they’re working with. That’s probably a great way to think about those systems. And if we focus on that stuff and we. Don’t worry about a lot of the other noise that’s out there. We can probably outperform. Am I, do you think I’m getting that right?
Christopher: I think so. I mean, it’s, it’s one of those things where, I mean, you’re talking about the 80 20 rule or those pieces and it’s kind of the, know, if, if a half a percent in a conversion rate makes a big deal to your organization, then yes, maybe, you know, you need to think about that or those pieces, but.
That doesn’t make a [00:33:00] incremental business difference to 90 percent of the businesses out there to be that granular, but it’s right. And I think the other part of it is everyone’s excited about AI and analyzing data and asking questions
and all those pieces. Um, and they’re thinking if they have incremental data, these tools are going to help them sort it out.
But in my mind, that increases your chance of having false positives by having all sorts of information that may or may not be relevant.
Ryan: Yeah.
Christopher: Like it doesn’t, it doesn’t make things, it doesn’t make things better. Um, but as you started, people spend all sorts of money building this data warehouse and putting all of that stuff in there and they realize that it costs them more money.
And then now they’re transporting data from one system to another using an API Every single connection costs them more money [00:34:00] and then they have to big, but better processors or, you know, get more cloud storage to sort all this out. And so you’re just incrementally building something just like me taking stuff out to the storage unit that I like, and I think I need, but it’s been collecting dust for three years.
And so why do I have it in there? Am I going to use those Fisher vacuum 210 skis? Right? No. For the off channel, am I really going to pack that up, you know, get a special case because to like send them, send them to Colorado for that one or two days, potentially during a year, every other year where the conditions are ideal for using them?
Absolutely not. But I think that’s the analogy I would use for data. Like, just think about that. I don’t need that stuff. It’s taking up space in my mind and in my [00:35:00] Not only the data warehouse, but in my mind, why am I thinking about that thing? Um, just get rid of it. And there’ll be a lot more uncluttered and clear about what you need and then how to find it.
Ryan: Or yeah, I mean, I think storage these days is cheap, but it actually depends like, you know, as we talk about a lot of like CRM, you know, sales and marketing platforms, they actually are, are kind of charging by the row right now. Cause they
Christopher: They’re starting. Yeah.
Ryan: Yeah. They want to charge for contact and they also want to charge for users. And then they want to charge for data. Like they all have different models for that now.
Yeah. Yeah. So I, I, I definitely get you, you know, you gotta, gotta be careful and you gotta balance it, right? Like focus on, you know, like we started talking about, like, what are the goals? What kinds of decisions do you have to make and just, just drive those actions and then monitor that they’re going successfully.
Anyways, one of the things that I love to do with each of my guests is [00:36:00] give all of the listeners an opportunity to get to know you a little bit better. So, Tell us a little bit more about Christopher. It could be, you know, background. I mean, obviously I think you let the cat out of the bag that you like skiing, but like, what else do you like to do outside of work?
Christopher: It’s all about fishing and cycling, I think. So, I have a 10 year old, we do fishing Fridays, we drive to fishing tournaments, like, it’s a lot of fun. I think, um, if I was to do it again, I’d probably be a professional bass angler, or sort of a Go after Bill Fish in those pieces. But maybe, maybe when I transition from this, but it’s all about outdoors and fishing, and I really like cycling.
I think that’s one of the few places where I can actually think.
Ryan: Hmm.
Christopher: Sort of, you know, getting out on a trail and riding for, for some distance and those pieces. It’s just nice, nice to see and nice to relax a bit and get [00:37:00] some exercise and then realize that you were deep in thought or have cycled well further out than you thought you were.
I may need to invest in one of those electric bikes at some point so that when I get myself in that position, when I’m out too far and didn’t realize that, that, um, getting home won’t be as much of a struggle.
Ryan: Yeah. I also am a, uh, I’m a cyclist. I totally get that. It’s just kind of, you can kind of get out in that groove and just, you know, Get some space in between everything else and just like have some, some great time that’s healthy and feels good. And you’re outdoors. It’s a, it’s great. I also love that. Um, I guess I got to look into bass fishing.
That sounds like a lot of fun. It sounds like you guys are having a
Christopher: doesn’t, it doesn’t have to be bad. I mean, it can be anything sort of, but it’s the same, it’s different than cycling cause you are, um, [00:38:00] I like activities where I’m trying to either doing something very monotonous over a period of time, like that’s what cycling is, sort of that the background changes,
but you’re sort of, you know, in a gear and just sort of pedaling along, or I like things where I need to figure something out.
Like, fishing is like that. Oh, we didn’t catch anything, so I’m going to try a different bait. I’m going to try a different lure. I’m going, you know, there’s things to change. I think the, the other thing like that for me is sailing. Like, I love that as well. I’m a sailing instructor, but I have not instructed anyone for it.
Yeah, I used to, um, so in Boston community boating, so I was, did that a lot. And then Boston Harbor Sailing Club, I used to do, um, they call it offshore, but I don’t consider the Chesapeake Bay to be offshore, but racing, racing on the bay. And then I [00:39:00] ran when I was in Denver. I ran their first sort of kids youth sailing program.
So did a lot of that and, but it’s the same thing. So you’re out there relaxing in nature, but if you want to engage yourself, it’s tuning the sails and, you know, making all these micro adjustments to stay in the right spot of the wind. So I like that kind of stuff
Ryan: Yeah.
Christopher: where I’m relaxing, but if I want to engage my mind in something, I’m not, I sort of have that thing I can do it with.
Ryan: Yeah, I love that. I actually, I’m in a, in a similar boat. I have not sailed in many years, but I grew up. Sailing. I think it was just kind of a good excuse for my parents to get me out of the house in the summer. But, you know, um, you know, I, I did, I did take to it cause it’s, you know, like you get to spend like great time outside and in nature and anytime it gets too hot, you just hop out of the boat and then get back in it.
Christopher: yeah,
Ryan: Um, you know, but it was, uh, it was a lot of fun. One of the [00:40:00] things that I will say though, is like, you know, Some of the, some of the sailboats that I was in, like particularly I sailed in, in four twenties as I got a little bit older and I did not find those relaxing. Like one little gust of wind and you’re getting dumped in one of those things.
So I think, uh, you know, now that I’m in my thirties, I’d probably, you know, pick something that isn’t going to flip over on me, you know, something a little
Christopher: J 24s
are, they’re, they’re, um, they’re a bit more comfortable in terms of, uh, from a sailing perspective. I did a lot of racing on, on J 24s out on the bay. It was sort of the, the boat of choice, but you want to have someone else who owns it, because you have to change your suit of sails every year.
Ryan: Yeah.
Christopher: it’s, uh, It’s
Ryan: It’s always 15, 000 to 20, 000 investment just to change the sales out.
Christopher: And then you’ve got your racing ones and then you have different size jibs and spinnakers. And if you’re really sort of, you know, particularly serious,
Ryan: Yeah. Yeah. It’s, uh, I think boating and sailing in general are [00:41:00] not, um, inexpensive things.
Christopher: unless you buy an outboard motor or an electric and you go to your local reservoir and like that, my son and I do that. And that’s particularly inexpensive. It costs 25 bucks, 27 for the day. You can rent a John Boat and then I have an outboard and we just. Yeah, have a nice day out on the water.
Ryan: Yeah. I love it. Now, Christopher, what are the best ways for people to connect with you if they’d like to?
Christopher: I think LinkedIn is probably the best So you’re looking for a Christopher Antonopoulos or at find your Yeti sort of Instagram Instagram Facebook and the like I think the other part is so it’s um I know this is odd and I’m probably gonna get a lot more calls But I mean, I’m happy for someone to call me directly I’ll leave that for sort of the You The quote for this, but I’m happy for someone to, you know, give me a call.
I mean, I will obviously know, or if [00:42:00] you’re, you know, you know, call me if you need help figuring something out. This is not a call for, you know, we have a cleaning service for your office or I’ve got this great thing to offer you, or I thought X, Y, Z, but I’ll, I’ll leave that Brian with like a link to LinkedIn and my direct phone number.
Or if someone has a question or. Wants to figure something else, but you know, please know I’ve got this great AI solution that I think you should sell your clients. That’s probably best to go through Mike or Meg in the organization rather than me, because it will, um, you know, probably never, never surface.
Ryan: So, I first off, thank you for kind of having invested the time into learning how to communicate that way. And then also for taking some of your time today to share with me and the listeners, some of your experience, it’s been hugely beneficial. Um, I learned a lot of things about how to, you know, sell and market better.
So [00:43:00] thank you so much for taking the time.
Christopher: You’re welcome. I mean, I love these calls. It’s sort of a way to. I talk through things as sort of as a way to figure out. So this is helpful to me. I think, um, yeah, just excited to be part of this, excited to help. I think, you know, the way that we best help companies are with their technology and technology stack.
So. You know, what do you want to accomplish? What tools do you actually need? Do you actually need those 50 to 70 different solutions? And so our role is to sort of think about what you want to achieve and then help you solve the technology piece of it.
Ryan: Yeah.
Christopher: And so that’s what sort of drives us and that’s kind of where, where we can best help.
And we have this internal, internal for our culture is called intelligently approachable. And so that’s something that we train everyone on, which is You know, we have some, you know, experts in technology that are very [00:44:00] technical in those pieces, but it doesn’t matter if you’re not approachable and it doesn’t matter if.
You make, you make someone feel bad about not having that level of expertise. So that’s the other really important piece is that, you know, based on your audience, I’m sure it’s very technical, like a lot of our teams, but just, you know, take a moment to take a step back that people may not make the same connections between data or relationships between things that are particularly obvious to you.
So do you sort of take a step back, take a deep breath before you sort of communicate those things.
Ryan: Yeah. Yeah. That’s great advice. And, and actually speaking of the audience, I also want to make sure that I thank the audience, um, today for listening. If you guys liked something that you heard, you laughed, you learned
anything, please make sure to tell a friend, you know, give us a repost or a like, a subscribe, give us a rating.
Hopefully it’s a good one. You know, [00:45:00] all of those kind of call to action things. If I can use some marketing lingo. Um, yeah. Anyways, Christopher, thank you again so much. This has been awesome. I really appreciate your time. And this has been another exciting episode of the Making Better Decisions podcast.
Thanks for listening.
That’s a wrap for today’s episode of making better decisions for show notes and more visit, making better decisions dot live a special thank you to our sponsor canopy analytic canopy. Analytic is a boutique consultancy focused on business intelligence and data engineering. They help companies make better decisions using data for more information, visit canopy analytic.
com. There’s a better way. Let’s find it together and make better decisions. Thank you so much for listening. We’ll catch you next week.
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