Data Integrity Matters with Emilie Sanders Lee

This is Making Better Decisions. I’m your host, Ryan Sullivan. Decisions are where rubber meets the road for organizations. Each week, we’ll be learning from people who are on the front lines of turning raw data into better outcomes for their organizations. This show is sponsored by Canopy Analytic, helping companies make better decisions using data.

Ryan: Hey everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Making Better Decisions podcast. Today’s guest is a data driven leader with over 15 years of experience in a career that has been a very cool blend of analytics and marketing in the B2B, B2C, and D2C spaces. She is currently focused on supporting business growth and enhancing client relationships through analytics.

Ryan: Please welcome the EVP of Global Analytics and Chief of Staff at JustGlobal, Inc., Emily Sanders Lee. Hey, Emily.

Emilie: Hi, thank you for having me.

Ryan: Absolutely. I am super [00:01:00] excited to dive right in and get to hear from all of your experience. So I want to get kicked off with our first question. What is one thing you wish more people knew about using data to make better decisions?

Emilie: Well, first of all, I love this kickoff question. A lot of different answers come to mind immediately, so I’m going to focus on two. The first one being data integrity really matters. I think a lot of people just receive the data and then run with it and don’t really question, is this data accurate? Are we making decisions with the accurate data or are we making decisions perhaps against data that is a little bit skewed.

Emilie: So that’s going to be the most critical, I think, foundation point. And then the next one is, Really making sure that we were clear on our audience. When we’re conveying information, we’re conveying some sort of, uh, data point to make a decision or create some sort of sway in a decision. Um, and not [00:02:00] only the audience, but like the end audience who were chatting with.

Emilie: So for example, in marketing analytics land, we are often talking to the people who are sort of in the day to day. And so they might get a certain aspect of marketing analytics that perhaps a couple layers above won’t necessarily get

as clearly. So whenever we’re conveying really critical information or trying to sway a particular decision, making sure that we are keeping in mind a couple levels up, perhaps the end stakeholder, so that we are not only providing the most critical, data points, simplifying it a bit, but also making sure that the information is conveyed in the most digestible way visually.

Ryan: Yeah. Wow. Um, you’re right. I mean, even, even with just that, there’s so many directions to go with it. I mean, one thing that you hear from almost every data professional [00:03:00] is, you know, at least a part of what you talked about with data integrity, kind of this garbage in garbage out, you know, and I think that that’s something that obviously it rings true.

Ryan: I think most people that don’t spend their days and Generating analytics and then being kind of held accountable to the responses. They’re like, Oh yeah, well of course data and you know, garbage in garbage out. Um, but I think as you dig it a bit deeper into that, it’s okay, well, number one, that takes a little bit more work and systems and you know, all of that stuff.

Ryan: Then I think most people initially, you know, think that it does. But one of the other things that you talked about, or I guess alluded to with the data integrity is that, is it skewed? Um, one of the big things that, that I talk about a lot is, you know, you take kind of like a standard metric, something, you know, like whether it’s sales dollars or revenue or costs, like any, anything like that.

Ryan: And you say, okay, well, [00:04:00] what’s the most common way of looking at that? People, whether it’s a bar chart or a, you know, a table or something like that, they’re typically like, okay, well, how, how many dollars per month? And the question that I always ask people is, okay, well, are those equal sized buckets to compare?

Emilie: Right. And do you have statistical significance behind the data point that you’re looking at? And have we just been looking at this data point for a long time and that’s why you want to look at it? Um, and in a lot of cases, the data point that we’re looking at over time is, is the best one because it’s proven to be so, and the historical data is there to provide context to determine whether or not the fluctuation is appropriate.

Emilie: Um, but yeah, I’m with you, kind of, Honing in on that point is, is really critical.

Ryan: Yeah. You know, I, I see some stuff where, you know, going back to that simple example, it’s kind of like, okay, well, you know, how many, How many

days are in January and then [00:05:00] February? Or are we only looking at business days? Is there seasonality? I think that as you point out, like this concept of, well, how much money did we make?

Ryan: Like, sure. Yeah, that’s, that’s an important thing to look at, but have I imbued it with the Kind of sector or business specific knowledge, right? Knowing, you know, okay, well, if I work in retail, like Q2 is not equal to Q4. Um, you know, so there, there’s a lot of that stuff. That’s, that’s really, really interesting.

Ryan: One of the other things that you mentioned that we haven’t really had a great chance to dig into on the podcast so far that I’m kind of excited to get your perspective on. Is a lot about thinking about the audience. So what are, you know, you mentioned, you know, their perspective and their level within the organization, kind of like what level they view their, their org at, but like, what are some of the kind of specific things that you’ve learned as it pertains [00:06:00] to marketing, as far as thinking about your audience?

Emilie: Yeah. I think whenever you do it for quite a while, you do, you do start to understand what the best ways of conveying information to a particular client at a particular level is. But when you’re first starting out or you are working with a client for the first time, still getting that foundational understanding of what is the best information to convey and how in the cadence is really critical.

Emilie: So asking the right questions, how do you like to visualize this? How did the, Previous marketing partner, uh, convey this information to you. What worked well, what didn’t, what are the typical questions that are asked when this information is conveyed? How can we better convey that information based on those questions?

Emilie: And then from there, listen to the answers, really listen to the answers. Don’t just kind of. default back to what you know and what has worked well perhaps on a previous template or with a similar client, really listen to [00:07:00] what they’re saying and listen to the questions that they’re asking you as well.

Emilie: Their questions, especially if they’re repetitive ones or if they’re repetitive pain points, they’re likely trying to tell you, please help me with this. Can we partner together to determine a better way to convey this information? Um, AI, I think, is really helpful in these scenarios as well. We’re finding a lot of value with AI in the analytics space.

Emilie: Not necessarily, yes, of course, from a quantitative standpoint, but also from a qualitative standpoint. Uh, we find that, you know, prompts are really key. Asking at the end of that prompt, what are, what are the questions that you have based on this situation? How would you consider responding to this particular, um, question that the, the client has for additional inspiration or just, just additional considerations when we’re trying to think of the best way to share information or [00:08:00] perhaps respond to a predicament with a client?

Ryan: Yeah, I, I love that. I mean, I think that what we have is saying that you don’t really know what somebody wants until you show them what they asked for

Emilie: Yeah,

Ryan: and, you know, at least on the surface level, like anybody who’s really done any professional services work, it kind of like has a little chuckle at that, but I think if you, if you really think about it, this is actually like a good thing.

Ryan: It’s not like, oh, well this person can’t, You know, accurately talk about their requirements. Cause it’s, you know, it’s just a reality of things. What I think the kind of positive spin on that is what we are doing is facilitating this cycle of increasingly better questions to ask. So we look at a simple report and people are like, Hmm, what about this?

Ryan: What about that? And then we go and we answer those questions and that facilitates the next round and the next round and the next [00:09:00] round. How does that really apply? To marketing, which I view as this area where there’s like no, no maximum depth you can go to. You can just always dig in a little bit more.

Emilie: it’s so true. The evolution of a report or a QBR, for example, is constant. Uh, I, I think there are very few clients that we work with who we have the same template for, we have the same metrics with, and those are clients who we’ve probably worked with for quite some time, three plus years. But for the clients who we are seeing, still getting to know even a year plus and we’re still evolving how we’re reporting with them.

Emilie: We’re still evolving the QBRs and how we visualize the information, data sources, and the switching of data sources. The evolution with, um, the different platforms that we work with often contributes to the shift in how we visualize and speak to performance. Um, and then, [00:10:00] you know, turnover on the client side and preference.

Emilie: is, is a big component of that as well. Everyone digests data differently, and so customizing it to every person is, is a part of the, the, the battle. Uh, the good battle, but yeah, part of the battle with, uh, marketing analytics.

Ryan: Yeah. Yeah. I think that one of the things that I try to, you know, to the degree possible challenge, a lot of the folks that we work with to do is to think about. Any analytics initiative as more of a journey than a destination. I think there’s, you know, don’t get me wrong, like the pendulum can overcorrect and it’s just like over agile everything.

Ryan: And it’s like, uh, you know, it turns into mayhem. I think obviously we need to have like a little bit of structure for sure in order to get anywhere good. But this idea of let’s get to a place, let’s [00:11:00] ask the next set of questions and continue, it’s this journey of kind of getting to know your business or your department or some initiative, as opposed to like, build me a report and I’ll look at it and it’ll be the same forever. One of the things that you brought up there was kind of, you know, how the sources and the logic all change from having done some marketing reporting myself, one of the things that. I find is that marketing in general changes really, really fast, right? There are so many things on the horizon. I know, you know, I have no doubt we’ll talk about, you know, the, the cookie list future coming up and, you know, all of these other changes, but the market itself changes, what people want change, what is important changes.

Ryan: And so obviously The reporting reflection of that has to change at the same pace or ideally to beat it to be able to see kind of what’s [00:12:00] going on and get a clear picture. How do you handle that challenge in a space where you’re building everything on quicksand? Yeah,

Emilie: a great question. I think The thinking, I think the mindset component that you just mentioned where we’re always thinking about it as a journey is really massive. You’re never really done. It is always a journey. There are pixels that are changing. We might get into a cookie less future. Um, but having, I think ensuring that you are constantly learning and growing as a team and ensuring that as a leader, you are setting up all the, the, the Best resources possible and removing all the obstacles possible to make sure that that learning and development is happening across the team is really critical.

Emilie: I’m a huge proponent of roadmapping with the team. We’re actually finalizing our FY25 roadmap right now, and there is a huge section on partnership, uh, partnership relationships and dividing and conquering across

the team so that everyone [00:13:00] owns a relationship. so that we can have a glossary of resources, that learning and development is happening.

Emilie: There’s a lot of benefits too from a career perspective when we’re, when we’re dividing and conquering across the team with those partnerships. So, uh, the learning and development is huge. We often set up, uh, summits, quarterly summits to make sure that we are getting all the latest and greatest information from a marketing platform standpoint.

Emilie: And that can be account based measurement, which is really key. A huge topic right now. It’s going to be a huge topic, making sure that we are reporting at the account level, the account influence, um, all the activity and the impact that marketing has had on the business. Um, it’s really evolved over time as different platforms have.

Emilie: So making sure that the team is structured in a way that there’s room for growth and learning is, is a huge, um, it’s, it’s really, [00:14:00] really important with the foundational quicksand, as you put it, it’s a great way to put it.

Ryan: Not all of the listeners here, um, are marketing professionals themselves, which is why I think your expertise is so, so cool and valuable to be able to put it in kind of data terms that, you know, most of the listeners are familiar with. So I wanted to ask you, I mean, one thing that you just brought up there was account level reporting.

Ryan: We alluded to this kind of cookie list future and you know, the, the, the challenge with, you know, a lot of email providers, Tolerating pixels anymore for someone who’s not a marketer. I was wondering if you could distill like, okay, like what did those things mean and what are their impacts? And also what are some kind of insights about the marketing world that might be useful for someone who’s not a marketing pro to know?

Emilie: So when it comes to B2B marketing specifically, oftentimes [00:15:00] there are target account lists that are provided to, uh, marketers to literally target, um, with their marketing activity there too, as of, you know, three or four years ago, there weren’t any platforms out there that allowed us to really, um, Measure marketing activity at the account level, which means that all that marketing activity would be happening, but only in a couple silos would we be actually, actually be able to say this marketing activity hit this particular account that you wanted to hit.

Emilie: It influenced them to make this decision on the website, like fill out a form. Submit a lead and then that marketing activity drove that person to actually sign up for a subscription or sign up for a subscription for that client’s particular product.

Emilie: So up until, you know, a handful of years ago, we haven’t been able to actually showcase the impact of marketing activity to a [00:16:00] client. And, and. This is, this is especially critical because around COVID, a lot of marketers had to do more with less when it came to their budgets, budgets were slashed. So the best way to showcase marketing impact on the business is by measurement.

Emilie: And so with the cookie list future, potentially coming, I say potentially, because there are a lot of people who are seeing it. still speculating as to whether or not it will happen, um, with that cookie less future potentially happening, we might have, uh, less of a capability when it comes to tracking.

Emilie: In the meantime, though, there are a lot of platforms out there that are.

Emilie: up leveling their capabilities so that we can see better tracking at the first party data, which is actually a better data source anyway. And by first party data, I mean the specific kind of target account lists, which I was referring to earlier, but again, measurement is really key there too.

Emilie: for anybody that touches marketing, what are some [00:17:00] insights or takeaways that as a marketing professional, you’ve gotten under your belt?

Emilie: I think the primary focus in the beginning is, define your objective. What kind of problem are you trying to solve? From there, you will then be able to determine what is the metric for success for that objective? Is it getting more people to my website? Is it getting more people to remember my, my brand?

Emilie: Is it getting people to actually purchase my product? From there, You’ll be able to create a marketing, uh, you know, marketing activity that focuses on that, but then from a measurement perspective, really honing in on the platforms that obviously can ensure that you’re hitting the right audience to ensure that those actions happen.

Emilie: Based on your objective, but also making sure that you have the appropriate tracking in place, um, and that you are working with solutions that also allow you to measure from that perspective as well. So for example, [00:18:00] there might be a particular programmatic platform that we go with

because of their measurement capabilities that might be apples to apples with another programmatic partner.

Emilie: Um, but. We know that from a measurement perspective, we’re going to be able to see the value of that display activity or that connected TV activity on search activity and and be able to really showcase the performance and the value of that channel because we know that, for example, connected TV plus a display ad will increase your conversion rate by X.

Emilie: We know that the frequency of that tends to happen, and we wouldn’t know that If we didn’t have the measurement capability in place in that platform. So I think if you’re also starting to lean into marketing analytics as well, really try to understand what the measurement capabilities are with each of the platforms that you deploy activity in, because that way you’ll be able to make the most of those platforms and really try to showcase [00:19:00] in the best way possible, either using your platform activity, your web analytics activity.

Emilie: your CRM activity amongst the blend of those, ideally to an account based solution. If you don’t have that attribution set up in your Salesforce instance, amongst all of those platforms, you should be able to get a pretty good idea of what the brand impact is on demand or what your marketing efforts impact is on your business.

Ryan: Yeah, I, I absolutely love those. I mean, like the two big takeaways that I took out of that are number one, having a clear, defined picture of objectives. This is one of the biggest things that I talk about. That I think is much larger than marketing. Um, it’s just kind of a common truth. I mean, I would, I would honestly even say of, of, of just kind of like any part of business.

Ryan: One of the big things [00:20:00] that we tout is, you know, compared to something like finance. You know, modern analytics is fairly new. Um, and so I think because of the youth of that field, it’s like the same thing we’re seeing with AI right now. Lots of people are scrambling to be like, we know we should be using AI.

Ryan: Let’s just like, where can we, where can we stuff it in? Like we have AI initiatives. And one of the things that I try to communicate to people is that all of the data that we have. All of the tools that we use to interact with it are just things that we can use to try to help our organization meet its objectives. So if I don’t have those defined, I’m kind of off just Building something that I think is fun or that somebody asked for, but it becomes very difficult to talk about the

tangible value of something if it’s not moving the organization towards one of its goals. So that is a phenomenal answer. One of the other takeaways that I got out [00:21:00] of this is when picking tools or using tools, which, you know, I think the modern economy is moving more and more towards right over any period of time, things get more specialized, they get more complicated.

Ryan: So we have vendors, you know, and partners who are stepping in to offer some specialized part. And as we evaluate that, again, I think in marketing or in anything else, thinking about what data does this capture? How easy is it to access and to integrate? Become really, really critical consideration. So we may have, you know, an awesome tool that does X, but if that doesn’t fit into the bigger picture, we can’t prove that it does X, you know, that’s a big thing to take a look at.

Emilie: Yeah. I think having that set of additional set of criteria involved. With the decision making in terms of how we’re deploying any kind of marketing activity is really critical. So including how are we able to measure the result of [00:22:00] this marketing activity within the platform decision making process is really huge.

Emilie: And it’s a it’s a criteria that involves it’s Additional key stakeholder buy in. And unless you’re really being consistent with that message, it’s going to be difficult to get across. So one takeaway there is, is make sure that you have a seat at the table from an analytics perspective, and you’re being clear about the types of needs that you require in order to be able to do the best job that you can do, and ultimately showcase.

Emilie: what the activity is, activity is doing from a marketing perspective. Otherwise, everyone’s going to be pretty frustrated.

Ryan: That’s awesome. I find that to be like, so clear and actionable for anybody who’s interested in marketing, but really like you can take those ideas and apply them to anything. So I think the listeners will get a huge amount of value out of that. One of the things that I know is very important to you is not just, you know, [00:23:00] A marketing audience, but kind of people at large and over the course of your career and the different roles that you’ve had, you’ve had kind of the, both the responsibility and the opportunity to build teams and to influence data culture and craft some of that messaging that you just mentioned. What’s some of that experience been like?

Emilie: it has been a really phenomenal journey. It’s been one that has happened faster than I thought it would in terms of the career progression that I’ve had.

And I actually attribute a lot of that to my volunteer work. I had a lot of moments of, uh, gaining just really unique learning experiences through some, through some volunteer work that I did back in 2016 to 2020, um, that I think really catapulted my career forward.

Emilie: And a lot of it, I think, revolved around creating this. I’ve been working with the team for the last year and a half, and we’ve built a sense of psychological safety with the team and the planning from a [00:24:00] roadmap perspective. So I think a lot of people forget the value of psychological safety in the workplace and how critical it is to creativity and innovation, um, handling stress better, ensuring that people have a place where they can provide constructive feedback.

Emilie: It helps with job satisfaction. That’s been a huge one, I think, for me, because I’ve I’m going on nearly three years of almost 100 percent or 100 percent voluntary retention. So meaning the only people who I’ve lost in the last nearly three years of being at Just Global have been people who we’ve had to just part ways with due to one reason or another.

Emilie: So I think psychological safety has been a huge, learning over the last few years, especially, and then the roadmapping component, making sure that everyone has that North Star, that they feel empowered to participate in different projects, that we’re always [00:25:00] listening to different stakeholders across the business and across the team and actioning upon those items so that people really feel like they’re being heard.

Emilie: And it helps with career well.

Ryan: yeah. Well, I mean, it sounds like the proof’s in the pudding. That’s really impressive. Um, being able to, you know, that, that employee retention that you mentioned. Um, I, I also have had, you know, similar experience with, with volunteer work. That’s not really at all related to, to what I do for work. Um, you know, I, I think that there are, At least in my experience, kind of two things.

Ryan: And they’re both very similar to what you mentioned. One is kind of, you know, if, if you employ someone and you’re like, all right, we’re going to do this, right. That’s like a very different dynamic. Then I have a team of volunteers that don’t have to be here. We’re not paying them. You know, how do I engender buy in?

Ryan: How do I, you know, Wrangle everybody. How do I get people excited? Like, how do we [00:26:00] get stuff done? You know, and yo

It has to do with, you know, roadmapping and involvement. And, you know, one of the other things that you’re kind of alluding to with the psychological safety is really empathy, like thinking about this other person, what do they want, how can I help them achieve their own goals?

Ryan: How can I help them grow? Um, I think that these are, you know, Things which help everywhere. But one of the questions that I have is, okay, awesome. We know that we want to do, you know, we want to, uh, put effort into ensuring that we build a culture of psychological safety. What does that look like in a data world?

Emilie: It is making sure that as a leader, we are being mindful of how we respond, that we aren’t getting upset whenever there’s an error that happens, that we talk about, you know, what can we learn from this? You are not in trouble. It’s when the errors continue on that we might get into more sort of [00:27:00] like disciplinary action.

Emilie: Um, it is, you know, Yes, demonstrating that empathy and support. That’s massive. I have skip level meetings with everyone and my team once a year to check in with them and see how they’re doing. It’s, I ask the same four questions every time. One of them is just, how are you doing? What’s new in your world?

Emilie: What are you most proud of? What are you excited about? Um, Humility, I think, is a huge component of that as well. From a leadership perspective, we are all there for a common cause, and we are not saving lives. We want to do really great work for our clients, and we want to progress in our careers, and at the same time, Let’s have a little bit of fun doing it together.

Emilie: Let’s learn and grow together. Um, I think also providing regular feedback on the spot, if something has happened, but doing it in an effective way. Our chief people officer has authored a couple of books. They are phenomenal in this [00:28:00] category and they have a really effective model when it comes to feedback, which is the model.

Emilie: Um, what did the person do? How was it? How did it impact the person? And then what could they do differently next time? And before even getting into that conversation, you have to make sure you have proper rapport and a good real, a pretty good relationship with that person. Otherwise that feedback session is not going to go well.

Emilie: So, um, I think, you know, a lot of those foundational items really help with the psychological safety and ensuring that people feel comfortable and confident being, uh, communicative and open and truly just being themselves in the workplace.

Ryan: Yeah. One of the things that, I think is just kind of table stakes in, in the analytics space is this idea of we put together some sort of report or analysis. We send it out there. Someone’s like, you know, X is wrong. You know, the, this number is wrong. And I think it [00:29:00] can be really easy to get into this mentality of one person asks for a thing.

Ryan: Another person builds the thing. It’s that feedback loop. Uh, like we talked about, like every single. Report or analytics initiative is, is this journey. So there are a lot of causes for why that number might be wrong. Like maybe we’re looking at a data source and there’s something wrong there. We missed, you know, something technical, like a data type, or, um, we didn’t actually have complete logic to begin with, or, you know, any number of different things, or it could be something as simple as, well, I put the comma in the wrong place.

Ryan: Um, you know, and I, I think that the most successful. analytics teams that I’ve been a part of or worked with have all had this mentality of this like excitement to get to the truth. And so when they find something like that, they’re like, Oh, this is awesome. This problem will be fixed [00:30:00] forever because now we can go in and we can, you know, whatever the case may be, we can rectify it.

Ryan: Now everybody else will be making better decisions. There’s this kind of positive excitement around getting to the truth as opposed to this kind of, you know, punitive environment where it’s just like, You didn’t give me the number that You know, for whatever reason we wanted and, and didn’t get to. Um, so I, I absolutely love that.

Ryan: And I feel like the more that we can partner with not just the team that’s doing the analytics, but the team that’s consuming the analytics and get them excited about that journey and about the better questions they’ll be able to ask and about the constantly improving quality of information that they get, the better it is because then everyone’s on the same team.

Emilie: I totally agree. One of the things that I’ve seen in previous employers is that analytics doesn’t have a seat at the table. And what I mean by that is it’s more of a queue based [00:31:00] setting where they get the request, they send

it the response via email. There’s no relationship. You’re just, the relationship is just Text on a screen.

Emilie: You don’t know who it is, who you’re working with. You don’t know what they care about. You don’t know how hard they worked on that, that response to you. And so by having a seat at the table and making sure that the team member is on the status calls that their client facing, that they’re hearing the request Text on screen.

Emilie: Specifically from the client as well. It’s not a game of telephone. Um, they’re suddenly working together as a team to respond versus just, here’s the request. This person needs to answer it. This is the due date. Here you go. There’s a lot more buy in and empowerment whenever that analyst has a seat at the table and the rest of the team really sees what’s going on behind the scenes and how that person needed to get to that.

Emilie: Something else that we do is a global analytics [00:32:00] training at the company where we train everyone who’s new. It’s mandatory for everyone who’s new, but then it’s a regular kind of ongoing training that’s optional for anyone who needs a refresher just so they can get a lens into the behind the scenes.

Emilie: What is it that we do? How do we do it? What are standard turnaround times? What’s a great response of a client has asked for something that is out of the blue that we could say, you know, could we fold this into the next report? So we’re not kind of getting blindsided by requests in itself. It throws off our day.

Emilie: It really helps with the overall rapport of the team. Um, and, and I’ve found that providing additional training and, um, learning opportunities for other teams about analytics has been extremely helpful for rapport and building relationships.

Ryan: Yeah, I, I love that. That, I think that clarifies, like, I, I’ve talked in a couple of previous podcasts about different pieces of this, but the way that you put that really tied [00:33:00] a lot together for me. And so this idea is really, there’s kind of a, There’s, there’s no way to get around the fact there are going to be people within an organization that have different specializations and like, that’s kind of their area and that’s the primary value that they bring.

Ryan: So obviously, you know, whatever part of the business it is, whether it’s marketing or any other part, that person’s core competence is around that. And then you have an analytics team and their core competence is around that. And.

I think through this, you know, the training initiative that you talked about, and if we’re really crafting the type of culture that I’ve seen be most effective, we want both of those groups to be constantly learning about the other.

Ryan: So like you mentioned, if this is someone who’s a non analytics professional, like one of the biggest things that I see is Okay. Well, like this is the information that I’m used to getting. So like, I need to keep getting that information. Okay, [00:34:00] cool. But I think as analytics professionals and especially kind of data culture crafters, we’re doing a disservice to them by not showing them, Hey, here, like some of the, the cool things that new tools can do.

Ryan: These are the new types of questions. Hey, here’s how the data landscape is shifted. We have this new source or this thing doesn’t work anymore. How can we explain that in terms of your, you Subject expertise. And then also how can we take our data team and help them to really understand the business, that kind of like lifelong learning on both sides, which.

Ryan: You know, I know another thing that you’ve talked about is kind of finding the right people and also finding the right role for those people. So there are certain people who are, you know, better on just a keyboard, like, Hey, I can build like unbelievable technical stuff. [00:35:00] And then there are other people who are much better at say, you know, interfacing with the rest of the organization.

Ryan: Tell me a little bit more of, you know, your thoughts in that area.

Emilie: Yeah, one of the things that we try to uncover in the interview process is how confident and comfortable is someone being client facing or, um, how do they feel whenever they’re presented with a new or different interview? situation or an opposing, uh, opinion. We ask a lot of how they do something, but also, um, you know, what they do, but also how they do it so that we can better understand how they would You know, come across in a particular situation.

Emilie: So there are other kind of skill sets that we like to look for as well. When it comes to the interview process, has the person come from an account management background? Have they been client facing before and do they [00:36:00] understand what it’s like to Sort of simplify information and convey it in the most helpful way for a client.

Emilie: That can be really helpful from a skill set standpoint when it comes to analytics. We’ve seen a lot of people thrive in analytics because they know how

to convey that information in a really simplified, succinct way to clients and kind of cut through the noise. For others who prefer to be sort of behind the scenes and dig into the data and really come up with that aha moment, that’s fine too.

Emilie: We need those people too. Those are really critical people when it comes to uncovering really important insights. So kind of making sure that we are understanding the different roles that exist, not only at the level, but there might be a certain skillset that jives better from a personality standpoint with a particular client depending on their personal.

Emilie: Personality. Um, I’m a big fan of Enneagrams and personality tests. I don’t have my team members do it, [00:37:00] but because I’ve been with my team members for so long, I know what a lot of their Enneagram numbers are. And I know what sort of, there’s also something called the scarf model, what sort of reaction people have when they’re put into different situations and how to convey information appropriately, depending on how they need, they best receive it.

Emilie: So. The more I guess the point is, the more that you understand the different personalities and skill sets that your team members bring to the table, the more you’re going to be able to better position them on different accounts and in different roles so that they really thrive and they aren’t put in sort of uncomfortable positions.

Emilie: Or if they are put in uncomfortable positions, they’re ready for it, and it’s in a way that they are willing to step up and you. You know, and it enables career progression as well.

Ryan: Yeah. Yeah. I, uh, you know, big shocker here, but the data guy likes generating data about people to understand them better. [00:38:00] But yeah, I’m a, I’m a big fan of, uh, of those tests as well. I found them, you know, hugely useful. I, I think that you’re, you’re, you know, spot on with the statement that, you know, different people, even within an analytics space, You know, can make a huge impact.

Ryan: And it’s really about like finding what works for them and where can I find the right place for them? Because you mentioned, right? Like, okay, well, we, we know that we want people that have, you know, this kind of deep analytic knowledge to be a part of, to be at the table, as you said. So when we’re talking about something, figuring out, okay, well, what’s the right question to ask?

Ryan: You asked this, is that the whole thing? Is there a level deeper? Can we make it bigger and better for you? Is it maybe too big? Already. And we need to focus on something smaller, you know, that person is not always the same person who’s going to go off and build some sort of like crazy, amazing model, or like write a program that digs in and creates automated insights.[00:39:00]

Ryan: Um, you know, so that’s, that’s really, really cool. One of the things that I think is super important kind of on the topic of people is, you know, You’ve shared, uh, uh, graciously a ton of your experience and knowledge, but I always think that it’s really cool for anybody who’s listening to get to know you a little bit more.

Ryan: So obviously I think we’ve pretty thoroughly established that you’re a person with, you know, BI and analytics knowledge. You’re a person with pretty deep marketing knowledge. What do you like to do outside of work? Like, tell me a little bit about who Emily is.

Emilie: so day to day I live here in Central Illinois with my husband and two daughters who are five and eight. I, a lot of my time is spent hanging out with them. We have a Bernadoodle as well, who is massive, but thinks he’s a lap dog. I love you. have recently started to really get into gardening. I’ve learned a lot over the last three years in central Illinois with [00:40:00] our home and kind of where the sun hits and what types of vegetables and whatnot, what, you know, do well in our garden. So that’s been really fun this year. I also really love SoulCycle.

Emilie: Um, it’s kind of my, my vice. I have a SoulCycle bike. I did get it during COVID and I still love it so much. I love to travel. I’m going to London here in a couple of weeks for both business and just personal. Um, and then I also really love to volunteer. I mentioned volunteering earlier. I have, my family has been impacted by Alzheimer’s and so I’ve found that I’ve put a lot of pain into purpose through volunteering with the Alzheimer’s Association, which has been such a gift.

Emilie: I, Again, just putting pain into purpose and trying to do something good during such a difficult time in my life. And I gained a community. I gained all this professional experience and it has really just paid off in so many ways. And I still [00:41:00] try to volunteer when and where I can. I’m a little busier now, but, um, I really try to give back when, when I can.

Ryan: Yeah, I, I absolutely love that. I’ve had some, some similar drivers and experiences with, with, uh, my volunteering and it’s been, I think, as you

mentioned, like you, you start off thinking about it, like, Okay. I want to do something about situation X and my experience has been the same. I, I have ended up getting a lot more than I give, which I keep trying to like write that balance, but I just don’t, I think volunteering is so impactful that it’s like pretty tough to just not take a ton away from it.

Ryan: It, it, you know, it’s kind of the gift that keeps giving.

Emilie: I agree. I just recently did. We call these inspirational sessions of the company. They’re monthly. We call them spark sessions. And I just recently did a session focused on the power of volunteering. A lot of people don’t realize how much they can get out of volunteering, networking. You [00:42:00] gain sales experience, the leadership experience.

Emilie: As you said earlier, how in the world do you keep a group of volunteers focused? It’s with us. making sure that they’re focusing on the purpose and the mission of what you’re doing and having a North Star and everyone needs a leader in those kinds of situations and somebody needs to step up. So yeah, that, that power of volunteering session was, I think, a, a, a huge one for me as I look back on all the benefits that I gained through doing so much good for the organization.

Emilie: It was a huge,

Ryan: Yeah, I love that. Well, if I can be so presumptuous, uh, the world thanks you for giving back. so obviously you said a lot of really interesting stuff. If anybody wants to reach out to you and learn a little bit more, or get to talk to you more, what’s the best way to connect?

Emilie: LinkedIn is a great way. Emily Sanders Lee on LinkedIn.

Ryan: That’s perfect. I love it. So. [00:43:00] I cannot thank you enough for taking the time and also for having like built all of this experience and then being willing to share it with everybody. I think you kind of gave, uh, you know, a ton of the secret sauce as far as how to think about some of these things. And it was really clear.

Ryan: That your experience, maybe this is because you have so much analytics specific experience, but even the things that you were talking about with marketing were so actionable and like generally applicable beyond that world. I think that anybody marketer or not would have really gotten a ton of value out of getting that to listen to you.

Ryan: So thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

Emilie: Uh, thank you for having me. You are, you do a great job with navigating the conversation and really keeping things exciting. So

Emilie: appreciate it.

Ryan: Thank, you. I really appreciate that. I also want to make sure to thank the audience. If you, if you laughed or you learned something, please make sure to tell a friend, please make sure to give us a rating, hopefully a good one, subscribe. Um, Emily, thank you again so much. And this has been another [00:44:00] exciting episode of the making better decisions podcast.

Ryan: Thanks for listening.

Emilie: Thank you.

That’s a wrap for today’s episode of making better decisions for show notes and more visit, making better decisions dot live a special thank you to our sponsor canopy analytic canopy. Analytic is a boutique consultancy focused on business intelligence and data engineering. They help companies make better decisions using data for more information, visit canopy analytic.

com. There’s a better way. Let’s find it together and make better decisions. Thank you so much for listening. We’ll catch you next week.